On this day in history, June 19, 1868, exactly 150 years ago, America's first transcontinental pedestrian, Seth Wilbur Payne, interviewed Mormon President Brigham Young. The President had left for Provo, UT the same day Payne arrived in SLC and our future newspaperman was concerned he might miss the opportunity, but a friend awakened him very early that morning with the news Young had returned and Payne might catch him if he got to his office early.

Payne arrived at the entrance of Temple Square at 7 AM. Workers pointed him to Young's office in the tithing office where a clerk directed him to an officious English secretary who demanded to know his business. Payne had neither a business card nor a letter of introduction but he explained his purpose and handed the man a slip of paper with his name on it. Five minutes later Brigham Young came out.

"I'm glad to see you," Young said, "I see you have traveled a long ways on foot. Don't your feet get sore?" (Utica Weekly Herald; July 28, 1868) Payne had to laugh; it was the most common question he heard. He had been looking forward to this interview for months and didn't expect his feet to be the first topic of conversation!

"Those shoes, I should think, were easy to walk in," Young continued, still eyeing Payne's feet. "I've done a bit of walking myself in my day. You Christians back there in the States kept us tramping round for several years trying to find some place where we might enjoy the religious freedom the Puritans of New England claim to have found on Plymouth Rock." (ibid.)

"You have been among us several days. How is it? Do you find us the Arabs you have represented us to be? Do you think you are in danger of losing your life among the Mormons? We are not in the habit of killing half as many in proportion to our population as do you in the States, and those we do murder we don't eat," he said with a grin."

"I suppose you will write a sermon on the Mormons after you get away? Most every one does that comes to visit us. If you can tell as many lies about us as those who preceded you, you will be entitled to a seat in Congress."

Payne asked President Young if he thought the US government was friendly towards the Mormons?

"I don't know or care what feelings the government has towards us. I presume it is commonly supposed in the Eastern states, and in the West for that matter, that this railroad we are helping to build will be the means of wiping out Mormonism from the continent forever. But I can assure you we have no fears upon that score."

Payne didn't believe him. Everyone, in Payne's view, knew that the Mormons dreaded the approach of the RR and the changes it would bring--in fact, as much as the Indians--but opposing it would be futile and likely fatal. Young had a different calculation--that the RR would bring in Saints faster than Gentiles!

Young continued, referring to the US Army campaign against the Mormons in 1857-58 Utah War, "Mr. (President) Buchanan thought to wipe us out in '57. Johnson's (sic) army came to execute his orders, but went back wiser I trust than they came. Polygamy we consider to be right and just aside from our religion. There is enough in its fervor outside of the Bible to sustain it. Horace Greeley was very inquisitive on the polygamy subject when he was with us. I told him it was his free-loveism regulated by God and reason. . . and (he) was the only writer I had read from our part of the world who had given a fair and truthful account of their visit to Salt Lake. Greely is a very eccentric character, but we were highly pleased with his visit. There was no fake flattery to him."

Payne had to agree with the President on this score, "toadies" who flattered you in-person and slammed you behind your back were "disgusting."

The President continued, "You lose in New York City alone from sixteen to twenty-one thousand females, many of them young girls, every twelve months. They are lost to their friends and to themselves and your religious society does all in its power to bury them still lower in infamy and shame."

Young went on to give Payne a history of the Mormons, their removal from the Midwest and migration to Utah. He dwelled with considerable feeling on the hardships and privations they had suffered at the hands of the Gentiles to establish this far off nation. He spoke of the great amount of labor expended in different parts of the Territory in building churches and establishing schools, constructing roads and bridges.

"He said his people were prosperous, contented and happy. The most of them came poor; many had their fare paid from the old country by the Church. They were now all in homes of their own. He thought if people would come unprejudiced and see for themselves how they lived, there would be less said against the Mormons. He knew there were a great many black sheep among them--men who, when away from the influence and eyes of their bishops and teachers, would conduct themselves in an improper way; but should I stay in Salt lake City ten years, I would never hear an oath or profane word of any kind from a Mormon." (Utica Weekly Herald; July 28, 1868)

Payne left feeling a little sorry for Young. "He has done good work in turning the attention, and helping the poor, down-trodden slaves of Great Britain to this country. Give him praise for that. But, "he is now growing old. His troubles and afflictions are great. His days are numbered." ... See MoreSee Less

3 days ago  ·  

On this day in history 150 years ago, Wednesday, June 17, 1868 Seth Wilbur Payne, the country's first transcontinental pedestrian attended a play in Salt Lake City, UT. With the Mormon Tabernacle still under construction, the Salt Lake Theatre was the dominant building in the city. It rivaled any theatre in the world in size and finishings. Observers called it one of the" Seven Wonders of the Theatrical World." Payne attended a presentation of "Under the Gaslight," by Augustine Daly, which had only premiered in NYC the previous August. He paid extra to sit in the front row of the balcony to get a better view of the VIP section below.

Brigham Young's cushion-backed rocking chair sat in the center of the parquette, empty. The President was in Provo tending to a branch of his flock. On one side, on long benches, sat 35 of his marriageable daughters, all about age 16-20, dressed in white coats, gloves and dresses with red scarfs and white straw ribbons serving as bonnets. On the other side of the aisle sat 12 of his wives. They were all dressed in black wool traveling costumes with black or dark brown bonnets trimmed with bugle beads.

Between acts Payne conversed with his fellow theater-goers. Many voiced concerns about the Indian war and the dampening effect it was having on overland immigration. They looked forward to the cash influx that the RR construction would soon bring. Payne predicts the RR will be the ruin of this Mormon enclave. Wealthy Easterners will undoubtedly quickly discover the healthy air and cultural attractions of SLC and displace the current owners. "In refinement, true gentility and polite education, the people of Salt Lake excel those of any other community I have ever visited." "I only hope that this fair city, whether it continues to prosper under Mormon or Gentile rule, may be as well-governed, may have as few disreputable inhabitants, and may be as peaceable and happy as it is to-day." (Utica Weekly Herald; July 14, 1868) Tuesday: an interview with Brigham Young. ... See MoreSee Less

5 days ago  ·  

On this day in history, Sunday June 14, 1868 Seth Wilbur Payne, the country's first transcontinental pedestrian, arrived in Salt Lake City, UT. With the Indian danger behind him, he had decided to leave the slow-moving wagon train the previous day and to walk-on alone. It would be hard to imagine a more disreputable looking character arriving in SLC that day. Payne's overcoat was dirty and greasy, and so torn it looked like a collection of loose rags; he had used his straw hat as a pillow for so long it scarcely looked like a hat at all . . . a robin's nest, perhaps--all mud and straw. To top things off, someone had stolen his boots, and his feet were wrapped in strips of a gunnysack he had found along the trail.

Drawn by the handsome little houses, gardens and clean quiet streets Payne walked into the heart of the city where he paused to admire one of the finer houses. A neat, becoming-looking middle-aged woman came out of the house, greeted him and inquired if he liked flowers. He responded affirmatively and she invited him to come inside the gate to rest while she picked him a bouquet. They introduced themselves and Payne learned he was speaking to Mrs. Brigham Young. "Sixty-five angels like her I thought would be too much of a blessing for any one of us poor mortals here below, even though he be like her unnatural husband, "The Lion of the Lord."" Payne exaggerated slightly, Young only had 55 wives, but he was truly touched by her kindness.

"It is also so rare in this aristocratic age, and among the moneyed aristocracy of the American people to find one who does not think it humiliating to try to cheer the heart or lighten the cares and troubles of a supposed inferior or unfortunate fellow being. A bunch of flowers costs but little, an approving smile or a kind word costs still less, either may give life and hope to the poor, perhaps forsaken wretch that passes your door. He is flattered and favored who can favor in return, but from a straggling stranger in rags, nothing is expected. Before such, a person acts out his true nature, and in this particular I claim an advantage over all other travelers in learning the true character of the people I go among." (Utica Weekly Herald; July 14, 1868)

Next to Indians, learning about the Mormons was at the top of Payne's objectives for the trip. He stayed a week and changed his mind about a lot. Next time: Payne goes to the theatre. ... See MoreSee Less

1 week ago  ·